May 10, 2005

Freedom of Conscience

into the Rain Forest...Kalopa State park

Im sure that you have all heard about this story. I only caught a bit of it a few days ago and was stunned. This clown could cause his church to lose its non profit status and affiliation with what ever Baptist convention they are aligned with. Frankly Im surprised this pastor hasn't been called to heel....

Pastor Won't Speak on Ousting Bush Critics
By PAUL NOWELL
Associated Press Writer

A pastor who led a charge to kick out nine church members who refused to support President Bush was the talk of the town Saturday in this mountain hamlet, with ousted congregants considering hiring a lawyer.

Pastor Chan Chandler greeted people at the door of tiny East Waynesville Baptist Church on Saturday evening as the church choir practiced and even welcomed them to attend services Sunday morning - if there's room inside. But he was not prepared to talk about his mixing of religion and politics.

"On the advice of counsel, I've been advised not to have any comment at this time," Chandler told The Associated Press. "We will have a statement later."

Members of the congregation said Chandler told them during last year's presidential campaign that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic nominee John Kerry needed to leave the church.

Longtime member Selma Morris, who was treasurer at the church, said Chandler's sermons remained political after Bush won re-election. This past week, his comments turned to politics again at a church gathering that ended with nine members voted out.

Morris said Saturday that some of the ousted members planned to meet with an attorney on Monday to discuss their options. "We're hoping he (the attorney) will make him leave so that the church members can come back," she said.

"This is very disturbing," said Pastor Robert Prince III, who leads the congregation at the nearby First Baptist Church. "I've been a pastor for more than 25 years, and I have never seen church members voted out for something like this."

Those who are still members did not know if the church would be open for services Sunday, or if Chandler would be in the pulpit to preach.

The 100-member East Waynesville Baptist Church sits on a bluff a short distance from downtown Waynesville, a mountain town about 125 miles northwest of Charlotte. A white steeple and stain glass windows adorn the simple brick structure, built in 1965, with a view of the mountains from the front steps.

Across the street sits the church's parsonage, a small brick ranch home with children's toys scattered in the front lawn. A small wooden sign out front reads simply "The Chandlers." No one answered the phone there on Saturday.

In the days since the nine members were ousted, many more members have reportedly left the church in protest.

"He went on and on about how he's going to bring politics up, and if we didn't agree with him, we should leave," Isaac Sutton told The News and Observer of Raleigh. "I think I deserve the right to vote for who I want to."

Sutton, a deacon who worshipped at East Waynesville Baptist Church for the past 12 years, said he and his wife were among the nine voted out.

"I've been going to this church for 25 years and I've never had a problem," Sutton's wife, Lorene, told The Associated Press on Friday. "He's young and he thinks he knows everything."

Other former members of the church declined to speak with a reporter Saturday, citing the advice of their attorney. But the furor over politics at the church was the talk of Waynesville, a community of about 9,200 residents.

"It's just an outrage for something like this to happen in America," said Heidi Jenkins, 52, as she held a garage sale at her home down the street from the church.

Prince said he noticed during the presidential campaign that more pastors made endorsements - although not from the pulpit - than in past years.

"It used to be that pastors would speak about the issues and not specific candidates," he said. "I think that line is being crossed."



Copyright 2005 Associated Press. not used by permission

I am Conservative. You all know that and I have little use for the policies presented by the Democratic party. But this is America folks. People like this using the power of the pulpit...(note not a NGO like Focus on the Family or Family Research Council, that is their job to talk politics...)...to bully people to vote one way or the other is a true step backwards into tyranny. A line has been crossed here.

What do you all think about this? In Hawaii it was against state law to do this as there was so much intimidation ( and still is thought its more subtle). And what do you think of the members of said church that voted the people out. Pretty darn amazing...

I don't think Jesus would have voted people out for a differing opinion, in fact, He died for his teachings, rather than force them upon us humans, we are brought to a place of acceptance, through the wooing of the Holy Spirit. That is the way of Love. Jesus said "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:44-45

Perhaps this pastor should spend more time in the scriptures and less in front of the paper or the TV. Whatever it is that drives him to this.

Should Mr. Kerry or any polititcian be elected, I have these verses to contend with from Romans 13:1-7
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

We are called to pray for those we disagree with not throw them out. Let us as people of faith pray that we will not become so dogmatic that we cannot fellowship with those we disagree with. When that happens we all will be the losers, and America will lose something unique and special in all of the world, the ability to amically go about our business, supporting the country as "loyal opposition", or as "humble servants to all of the people," with respect to politics, religion or any other matter of conscience.